An Interview With XIII Minutes: On New Music, Band Changes, and Memes.
Since coming out of hiatus in 2022, Oklahoma based XIII Minutes has been extensively touring the country, bringing their melodic metalcore to the masses. Not only are they internet meme masters, but the band is passionate about inspiring the next generation, tackling heavy mental health issues. Through many changes, including a label switch to NRT music and a new singer, Jerrod Cunningham, they’ve continued to churn out some heavy-hitting singles, “Cult Leader,” “Stay, " and “Who Told You So.”
The wait for new music is almost over! Mark your calendars for October 3rd, when their new single “Fake” drops. In the meantime, listen to their most recent single, “Stay.” It’s a passionate plea, tackling the issue of suicide and depression and is featured through the HeartSupport organization. We had a chance to catch up with the guys and chat about the Stay EP, HeartSupport and their musical journey, when we sat down with XIII Minutes at Uprise Festival in September.
XIII Minutes is:
Jerrod Cunningham: Lead vocals
Jamie Kucinski: Drums
Thomas Wheat: Guitar and Background vocals
John Walker: Bass
(Thomas was not present for the interview)
Solid Rock Unplugged: To start, tell me the heart behind your music. What is XIII Minutes all about?
Jamie: I think you’ll probably get three different answers on that, but there’s one commonality in it. I don’t think it’s any surprise at Uprise Festival, but we just want to give honor and glory to Christ through what we do. We can branch it down from there and give you our individual answers, but the commonality for every guy in this band simply is Jesus brought us together.
Jerrod: I think the only expounder I would put on that, it goes back to the greatest commandment. “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, your soul, and your strength. And the second is like it. Love your neighbor as yourself.” That’s what causes the direction of our music, to the people we’re singing to and trying to direct them to that first love, loving them into the family.
Jamie: If you were to say something, John, what would it be?
John: Well, this is only my sixth show with the band. One thing that’s been the commonality, throughout the entire time I’ve been with these guys, is that someone comes up to the table and says “Hey, I really connected with this song, I’d like to know more about what you guys are singing about.” It’s always about connecting with people, like Jerrod said. It’s always the people we connect with, the lives we touch. That’s one thing I’ve gotten out of being with these guys, that it’s really about serving Christ and going amidst the sheep, tending to people.
Solid Rock Unplugged: Recently, you released the Stay EP and you’ve been releasing singles to go along with that. What excites you guys the most about these new songs?
Jerrod: I wouldn’t say that it’s just because I’m in the band. Because I was a huge fan of XIII Minutes before I was in the band. But what I would say is, I do feel there’s a more intentional, focused direction when it comes to the lyrical output, when it comes to the message that we’re trying to give. That comes with age and experience, being able to be more clear with what you want to put out there. Also, being far less concerned about how that message can be received. Not in a negative sense. We don’t go out trying to push people away or anything like that. But at the same time, we aren’t shying away from all I’ve ever known to be true.
Jamie: I was here at the beginning. So, I have what I consider a unique perspective. I’ve watched this band grow. I’ve been here through every transition, every different kind of talent that God has supplied. I would say that intentionality is a big thing. It’s more of a defined work.
When we recorded the last album, it really was a group of guys who kind of stayed out of each other’s lanes. We didn’t really speak into what this person brought, or this person brought. We had a producer that would help us, but we really didn’t do a lot of that. With these song creations, we’re really interconnected with the outcome. There’s a lot of sharpening that goes into it. And I think because of that sharpening, the songs are just better!
Solid Rock Unplugged: So to go along with what excites you about the new music, what scares you?
Jamie: John? You beat some girl in the head with a bag today!
John: We were throwing beach balls and balloons, and the bag of balloons didn’t have any weight to it. The bag of beach balls did! And this one lady was able to catch it…with her face! I felt so bad about that. Luckily she turned around and saw it before it hit her.
But one thing I was really excited about with the new music was that I got to listen to it, or at least some early mixes of it, so I could prepare for the tour season. What probably scares me the most is being able to live up to the excellent songs that have come out of prior recording sessions. Now there’s just a bar there, that I’ve got to meet these guys who have been doing it for 10 years!
Jamie: I don’t know if anything scares me about it. I think early on, trying to get the band mobilized, there was a lot of fear about what people would think or what people would say or how people would receive it. I think Jerrod hit the nail on the head, I’m at a stage now where it’s like, this is simply who we are. It’s honest, it’s authentic. How people receive it is really out of our hands. If you like it, awesome! If you don’t, there’s a lot of other bands. There’s not really a lot of fear in there. I think excitement really is the one constant.
Jerrod: Yeah, I would agree. Fear is not something that I really put in the equation. I see the opportunities that we have in this band as being a gift. I know Jamie and I, separately, have been on this music journey for twenty-something years. So now it’s like, we get to experience this, we get to share it with our families. We get to do things that we used to dream about when we were kids. Man, if it all disappeared tomorrow, if this was our last show, I’d be grateful for what God has for us. Because this was not promised. He doesn’t owe us one more show. Every time we take the stage, it’s a gift. Perfect love casts out fear. And God allowing us to do this is such a loving, fatherly thing.
John: So I’m the only one who’s scared. Got it!
Jamie: He’s young! You’ll get to this place. You’re new, it’s okay to have nerves, man!
Solid Rock Unplugged: What do you want your fans to take away from these new singles?
Jerrod: Our merch!
Jamie: That’s such a hard thing. I want a genuine response. I would rather you love or hate what we do, rather than be apathetic about it. If you’re kind of like “Eh, it’s just there,” I don’t feel like I did my job, you know? A response is good, no matter which way you lean. My hope is that you like it, but if you listen and think “No, I don’t like it.” Cool! You listened, you gave it weight and you just didn’t like it.
Jerrod: I think coming back to the message, I really appreciate this transition season. I feel like this EP is a bridge of what XIII Minutes was in the past and the direction that we’re going in the future. It makes me really excited, because we’ve covered a lot of heavy stuff, especially on this album. We talked about depression, we talked about suicide. We talked about lies and religious manipulations, or influencers, and all of this kind of stuff.
So, we covered a lot of heavy things, but we don’t intend to stay there. This is a bridge to get us somewhere else. This is where we’re at, now let’s talk about where we’re going. We’ve already been internally discussing, as we’re getting back towards thinking about the studio and writing new stuff. Intentionally putting out hope, putting out victory and overcoming.
You don’t have to stay, like in the moment of a song like “Stay.” Yes, that’s the first step, but now let’s talk about where we go from here. It gets better, let’s talk about that too! I want to have crowd responses that they’re not just yelling things like “Hey!” and “Oh!” and “I’m obsessed,” I want them to be yelling things that have power.
Jamie: Fun story, when we went to Mexico, we were sitting there going “How are we going to do our call and response? None of us know Spanish!” So we really dialed in [the intro to] “Who Told You?” The beginning, it doesn’t matter what your language is, you can do that! Our plan was actually to drop “Who Told You?” from the set list after Mexico. It was because of the Mexico response, it was like, maybe there’s something still there! That was one of the cogs that turned that drove us to do the re-write.
Solid Rock Unplugged: In the last year, you guys switched from Rottweiler Records to NRT Records. How’s that switch going? And why did you switch?
Jamie: XIII Minutes was with Rottweiler for six years. I will say this until the end of the earth, Rottweiler opened so many doors for us in the beginning. They really did. I am eternally grateful for Shawn Browning. It was a great season!
When Shawn sold Rottweiler, I was left with the question of “Ok, what is the vision for us? Do we still fit in the grand scheme of things?” After meeting with the new owners of Rottweiler, I just didn’t feel like we were a good fit any longer. Really, at that point I wasn’t looking for a label. It just so happened the label found us!
We met Kevin McNeese in Nashville and he loved what we were about. Unbeknownst to us in the meeting, he was launching NRT Music. Of course, Kevin’s expertise is 20+ years of New Release Today. It’s arguably the biggest Christian media site out there. When he approached us, to have that expertise behind us, it was worth the opportunity to see where it can go. There’s a risk in it, because on NRT, I think we’re probably the heaviest band. Whereas, with Rottweiler, we were the lightest band. We’ve gone to the heaviest band on the roster. So there’s these extremes.
Jerrrod mentioned bridges. For me, speaking on my own accord, I like to build bridges. There’s so much dissension within music culture. Who cares if someone likes CCM? If you enjoy it, go enjoy it? The whole throwing stones thing, that “you suck and you suck and you suck,” and “my music is the best thing there is!” I’m like “let’s just stop!” We are all on the same team.
I think NRT was a good bridge to get in there with a lot of artists who are not like us. We hear a lot of “Oh guys, CCM stuff! Don’t you know they just write the same chorus over and over again?” Maybe we can bridge some of that and bridge for us too. There’s a risk there, it may not be received. But at the end of it, after we prayed about it and talked about it, we felt like it was worth at least the opportunity to try.
Jerrod: And just as a side for Kevin, he has no reason to want to sign a band like us. We do not fit in with the bands that he already had and the artists he already had. He doesn’t even like heavy music! He told us that. He likes Lacey! He’s like “I don’t really like heavy music. Skillet, they’re a little bit heavy for me, I can like some of their stuff.” We’re not Skillet! But he was like, “there’s something about you guys.” He could see something that he found value in and believed in us. There’s no other reason that you would want to do this, other than, I like working with good people who have your back, who believe in you, and are willing to invest and put some skin in the game. To be able to show it, not just say it. He’s been a really great encouragement.
Jamie: Like with Shawn, I’m truly appreciative of Kevin as well. Any band that is fortunate enough to have somebody come along and say “I believe in what you do,” I think that’s great.
Solid Rock Unplugged: Now, with the switch in the label and the addition of Jerrod as the new lead singer, what does he bring to the band?
Jamie: Soul. Urban soul.
Jerrod: A pink shirt. Just not to the stage.
Solid Rock Unplugged: The confidence to wear a pink shirt!
Jamie: I’ll speak from my perspective. Jerrod and I officially met back in 2018. It was this little coffee shop in Omaha, Nebraska that we stopped in at on this tour we were on. The first thing I saw was a family who loved their husband and dad. The kids and the wife were there. Nobody had to say a word about that. And I saw this man who obviously loved his wife and kids.
I think there are certain things in life, many things in life, honestly, that have greater weight and value than [XIII Minutes]. Loving your wife well, being active and engaged with your children are a few of those things. So that was my introduction to Jerrod. We didn’t really go any further than that. We became friends and we stayed connected, but it was not like “Hey, you got an opening at any point?”
But God. That’s my life’s motto - But God. Not really realizing that five years after that, we were going to literally lose a singer in four shows. But God, even in that! And we had this opening. It wasn’t one of those things where Jerrod was like “Hey, I might throw my name in there.” You never know how it’s all going to unfold, but Jerrod has a voice that I knew could work.
It’s always the question, you believe that it could, now will it work? So that was touch point number two. Jerrod said “I want to try!” And so he got his demos ready. I knew what could be, by the demos, but I will tell you when I was firmly sold with Jerrod, the talent, is our first time in the studio. I didn’t know Jerrod could do some of those things. I’m serious. He was on key for 12 hours that day! We were sitting in the studio, Thomas and I, we were like “Holy smokes, where did this guy come from?”
That’s when we knew that this was going to be a good fit. Jerrod does well bridging the gap between the old stuff. He does the old stuff well. We hadn’t turned into a country band from what we were, right? Or a hip hop band in Jerrod’s case.
Jerrod: You know me!
Jamie: Then on top of that, he has brought so much more of what I had in mind when I started this band. There are things he does through his voice that are the things I was looking for in the beginning. It took us a little to get there, but God, as always! Here we are, he brings what we had and then some! So he really excels and enhances everything we’ve done as a band.
Solid Rock Unplugged: Jerrod, you have another band, correct?
Jerrod: I do, I Am The Pendragon. Been going on for 15 years now. We’re just about to release a new album and go on tour in the fall. Just a little short run tour, a little over a week, to kind of hit a few places that we love. I’m still doing Pendragon, but we make it work. We talk about the schedule way out in advance. We’ve always done a minimum of three months, except for very rare exceptions when there’s an opportunity that would come up. Even in those times, it’s “Hey, I know this is last minute,” and we make it work.
My position has always been, if I can make it work, I’m going to make it work. If it makes sense, if it furthers a certain aspect of the band. Oftentimes it’s not financial, like “oh we’re going to make a ton of money doing it.” We may break even doing it. But is this going to get us in front of more people that wouldn’t know us?
We did a really small show in Nebraska with a guy that we had played with earlier in the year. He’s like, “I want to bring you to my hometown.” That show was for him. There were 30 people that came out that night, it was a bar show, in and out, all that. But it was like, no, God wants us to be there for that guy.
Jamie: And it really was that guy!
Jerrod: That one show is still bearing fruit and the opportunity to speak into lives, to minister. So it’s not always something that’s going to make sense on the budget or on the calendar. But if this is where we feel God is calling us to go, we’re going to go, and we’re going to give it our all. I’m going to figure out a way to make it work! I have an extremely awesome and supportive wife and family. They come out to a lot of shows with me. This time they couldn’t, because we’re on the far side of the country.
Solid Rock Unplugged: How old are your kids?
Jerrod: My oldest, Emery, is 15. He’s the new drummer for Pendragon. He’s just taken over this summer. He’s a few shows in now. Jax is 12 and Atlas is 9. Our daughter is 7.
Solid Rock Unplugged: She’s got you wrapped around her finger?
Jerrod: Oh no, we’ve never been those kinds of parents, which is great. My wife is very loving and firm. I am a jungle gym most of the time when I get home. I don’t even realize they’re crawling on me. I’ve had them literally climbing all the way up to sit on my shoulders, as I’m in conversation with somebody. And I don’t realize that until their hand’s on my face, because it just happens all the time. I don’t even know what’s happening any more. But we have a really fun home, a lot of love. A lot of laughter.
John: I mean, me being new to all this, I’m still trying to figure out scheduling and things like that. However, if I wasn’t using my vacation time for this, I’d be just taking trips to places, going by myself anyway. You know, I think this has been a better, way better, use of my vacation time.
If I hadn’t toured with you guys, I wouldn’t have met my fiancee! Our guitar player Thomas, who’s MIA right now, probably getting a nap somewhere, he introduced me and my fiancee! Just through this! Wild how it all worked out. She’s been really supportive and even excited about how this could translate into our future and that sort of thing. I’m really excited for what the future holds for XIII Minutes and married life.
Solid Rock Unplugged: Especially if you guys keep on doing performances like you did this morning! Sheesh, you guys came out!
Jerrod: Yeah, that’s kind of the feedback that we’ve been getting. I think to people on the outside, it can seem like this all came together real quick. I’ve only been in the band for two years and we’re playing Uprise, we’re playing Icthus. We’re on Main Stage at Kingdom Come Festival, going to Mexico and doing all this stuff! But this is built on literally twenty years. Twenty years for me, twenty years for Jamie, probably close to twenty for Thomas. Twenty years of not having any of those things. And just sticking at it, sticking with it, and having a support system that can sustain it. Took a while to get here!
Solid Rock Unplugged: Jamie, this is for you. You have quite the presence on social media!
Jerrod: That’s a way of saying it!
John: Memelord!
Solid Rock Unplugged: You put a lighthearted spin on it, sharing memes in an area that’s so doom and gloom. Especially in the last week. What’s your approach to social media?
Jamie: I used to be, and I still have to fight this, a really serious person. I was in a place in life that I literally couldn’t find it in me to be joyous, unless I had some alcoholic bravery. And it bothered me! It bothered me that I couldn’t find joy. I didn’t understand, at that point, the root of where I was at. It bothered me that it took all of this other stuff before I felt like I could laugh. It was a terrible place to be as a human. It was heavy.
I’m not saying to put my head in the sand and act like “I’m blessed and highly favored, brother!” You know, the pat Christian answer because you don’t want to look ugly or broken. But without going too deep, my story is I got sober. I came back to Christ, and I learned to deal with me sober, which was really, really hard.
Then one day, the absolute worst news you could ever expect to receive happened. I received word that my little sister was murdered. I was 24 years old. Mine and my sister’s relationship was very contentious and I went into a spiral on the back end of it, of regret. Things I didn’t say. Things I didn’t do. Expressions of love. I wanted to let her know how much I loved her. But there was this thing inside of me that just wouldn’t let it out.
I went through a really, really dark season. And the great thing about it, is in all of this, Jesus sat with me. I literally had nothing to bring to the throne. I really didn’t. I didn’t realize at this point I was depressed. Before that, I was like, “I’m too strong, it’s weak people that get depressed,” and then here I was. I was that guy I said I would never be.
The great thing about Jesus in that moment is that I wasn’t judged, I was loved! Slowly, but surely, this pretense and these burdens that I carried, that wouldn’t allow me to express joy in my life, began to be built back. And I came out on the other side with a new lease on life. But it was one where I’m not going to not do something for fear of rejection or fear of reprisal or fear of judgement.
And that includes saying “I love you.” That includes things like crying. It was one of those things where I became free. I made a promise to myself to live in that place. So, I am not personally going to live in doom and gloom. I lived there, I know what that feels like. It’s a heavy place to be and it’s a place I don’t want to be.
I imagine there’s a lot of people just like that, maybe just like me, that struggle to find joy. To struggle to smile and to see the goodness in others. The memes are a daily reminder, almost to myself, that every day is worth smiling at. If it makes me smile, I know there’s somebody out there that it makes them smile as well. Are they deep theological dissertations? Absolutely not. And I really don’t care! …Memes are funny! If I find them funny, I’m sure somebody else finds them funny. If their day is better because of it, then I feel like I did what I was supposed to do.
It was really step-by-step. Every day now is an intentional choice to be joyous, to find something to smile about. Even a stupid meme! .…I read a quote recently that says “When I send you a meme, it means I took a moment to think about you,” That’s the truest thing I can put out there, that I took a moment to think about you. If you want bad news, if you want to be mad at your day or if you want to be disgruntled, you can find it pretty easy.
It’s also a little bit of a rebel in me. I don’t want to be that and I’m not going to be. So I’m going to be something completely different. If you enjoy it, I’m glad you do. And if you don’t, I’m sorry you don’t. Because tomorrow there’s going to be probably two more memes in your feed and that’s going to make you mad.
Solid Rock Unplugged: To wrap up, is there anything that XIII Minutes wants to promote?
Jamie: We create music because music is a bridge to someone's heart. We pray that the message in the music comforts you, inspires you, gives you hope, or just makes your day better.
We have 20 plus songs sitting in the internet world now and would love for them to be listened to. You can find us on ALL of your favorite streaming services. Oh, and our new song “FAKE” is dropping on NRT Music this Friday, October 3rd!
Check out XIII Minutes on Instagram and Facebook (especially if you want your daily dose of memes!). Be sure to pre-save their new single, “Fake” today!
